Posts by The Leological One

35

Can anyone help with info to refute only 144,000 going to heaven?

by The Leological One in

jw
friends

i've recently shown my wife this forum (she's a df'd jw who does still hold fast to jw views).

she's been really depressed and feels down on herself constantly because she wasn't a better witness and seems to feel she has no hope of a personal relationship with god now that she's df'd.

i was a little upset a moment ago trying to get her out of her depression by pushing my point of view that the wt is full of $hit regarding a great many number of things, the least of which that only 144,000 people are going to heaven/effectively can be saved.

The Leological One

Thanks Heathen~! At the Guitarmaggedon, we were allowed to choose one backing track out of 18, with styles of blues, rock, gospel, punk, metal, etc... I kinda' chose a metal-ish style track that was fun to play to, but basically we just shred all over the tracks whatever we could come up with~!

Oh, yeah; I agree with you regarding the WT, though I can appreciate some of the morals it encourages; I would say I appreciate all the morals, but then so many people here and my wife have experienced the caste system, as it were, and a general lack of empathy that I'm not sure I could or would blame on the people individually so much as on the way the organization seems to promote the cliques/popularity.

My wife got DF'd for hooking up with me before we got married, though we got married about a couple weeks at most after her DF'ing, and they knew we were to be married so soon. I hate to see how people can't even talk to their own families anymore and just think that policy is totally ignorant and am even surprised the WT's kept up its membership so well with that policy in place~!

Sorry to hear about the car accident . Guitarmaggedon , sounds pretty cool . What is that like free style stuff , write your own songs or how well you do copy stuff?
I would rest assured that the WTBTS is f'd up from top to bottom . You never did mention what the wife got the big DF over to begin with .

35

Can anyone help with info to refute only 144,000 going to heaven?

by The Leological One in

jw
friends

i've recently shown my wife this forum (she's a df'd jw who does still hold fast to jw views).

she's been really depressed and feels down on herself constantly because she wasn't a better witness and seems to feel she has no hope of a personal relationship with god now that she's df'd.

i was a little upset a moment ago trying to get her out of her depression by pushing my point of view that the wt is full of $hit regarding a great many number of things, the least of which that only 144,000 people are going to heaven/effectively can be saved.

The Leological One

Thanks again Cygnus, Adelmaal, and Narkissos! I just got home from a guitar competition (called Guitarmageddon, oddly enough~! ) ; unfortunately I didn't get to advance and got in a wreck on the way there today and so haven't had time to look at your responses more fully, but I really appreciate the responses and the info that's been looked up~! I can't wait 'til I have more time the next couple days to look over this thread again and some of the links provided~!

Thanks again all,

Leonard

35

Can anyone help with info to refute only 144,000 going to heaven?

by The Leological One in

jw
friends

i've recently shown my wife this forum (she's a df'd jw who does still hold fast to jw views).

she's been really depressed and feels down on herself constantly because she wasn't a better witness and seems to feel she has no hope of a personal relationship with god now that she's df'd.

i was a little upset a moment ago trying to get her out of her depression by pushing my point of view that the wt is full of $hit regarding a great many number of things, the least of which that only 144,000 people are going to heaven/effectively can be saved.

The Leological One

Thanks to all who've replied to the thread and also for those last couple of good-sized, info-filled posts by Jaffacake and Adelmaal as well as to MAHABA and Narkissos for sharing their views~!

Leonard

35

Can anyone help with info to refute only 144,000 going to heaven?

by The Leological One in

jw
friends

i've recently shown my wife this forum (she's a df'd jw who does still hold fast to jw views).

she's been really depressed and feels down on herself constantly because she wasn't a better witness and seems to feel she has no hope of a personal relationship with god now that she's df'd.

i was a little upset a moment ago trying to get her out of her depression by pushing my point of view that the wt is full of $hit regarding a great many number of things, the least of which that only 144,000 people are going to heaven/effectively can be saved.

The Leological One

MAHABA,

Thanks for your post. I don't have enough time to research your point at the moment, but I feel certain verses help identify that people are supposed to be "born again" to even see the kingdom of heaven:

"Unless you are born again, you cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3,5,7).

From my understanding, the WT view is that only the 144,000 witnesses can be/are born again. If that's true, then how does that jive with the above verse (maybe a different translation?)?

35

Can anyone help with info to refute only 144,000 going to heaven?

by The Leological One in

jw
friends

i've recently shown my wife this forum (she's a df'd jw who does still hold fast to jw views).

she's been really depressed and feels down on herself constantly because she wasn't a better witness and seems to feel she has no hope of a personal relationship with god now that she's df'd.

i was a little upset a moment ago trying to get her out of her depression by pushing my point of view that the wt is full of $hit regarding a great many number of things, the least of which that only 144,000 people are going to heaven/effectively can be saved.

The Leological One

That's great! It is a good thread and there have been more postings to it even today I believe.
I hear you on her not wanting to read a book "apostate literature". I also still believe the Witnesses had "the truth" even when I was df'd and also after I eventually left on my own accord. It took time for me to consider the fact that they might be wrong... You are doing a great job supporting your wife and I can tell you care about her well being very much.
Hang in there and coming to this site will I'm sure be of great help to you.

Yes; she seems to be in exactly the same place/mindset you were in. Thanks again Adelmaal!

35

Can anyone help with info to refute only 144,000 going to heaven?

by The Leological One in

jw
friends

i've recently shown my wife this forum (she's a df'd jw who does still hold fast to jw views).

she's been really depressed and feels down on herself constantly because she wasn't a better witness and seems to feel she has no hope of a personal relationship with god now that she's df'd.

i was a little upset a moment ago trying to get her out of her depression by pushing my point of view that the wt is full of $hit regarding a great many number of things, the least of which that only 144,000 people are going to heaven/effectively can be saved.

The Leological One

Pennycandy,

Thanks for the info~! I just read that from a link at freeminds.org just before coming back to look at the thread~!

http://www.xjw.com/where.html
Where is the Great Crowd Serving God? Very helpful article.

[edit:] Actually, I think that may be a different site going over the same topic I'd read. Thanks again!

35

Can anyone help with info to refute only 144,000 going to heaven?

by The Leological One in

jw
friends

i've recently shown my wife this forum (she's a df'd jw who does still hold fast to jw views).

she's been really depressed and feels down on herself constantly because she wasn't a better witness and seems to feel she has no hope of a personal relationship with god now that she's df'd.

i was a little upset a moment ago trying to get her out of her depression by pushing my point of view that the wt is full of $hit regarding a great many number of things, the least of which that only 144,000 people are going to heaven/effectively can be saved.

The Leological One

Narkissos,

Thanks for the post:

Simply reading the NT would do it.
First, the burden of proof is the JWs' as no single text explicitly says that.
Second, there is massive evidence that no segment of early Christianity believed in "two hopes". Cf. Ephesians 4:
There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope of your calling, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all and through all and in all.
Third, all the texts JWs use to this end are quoted out of context.
(1) On Luke 12:32 see Peacefulpete's thread http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/86875/1.ashx
(2) John 10:16 clearly speaks of people from two distinct origins (i.e. Jews and Gentiles) gathered into "one flock" -- not the other way around.
(3) the 144,000 of Revelation 7; 14 are clearly a symbolical number as the 12 tribes of 12,000 they are made of (7:4ff); see the equally symbolical use of the figures 12 and 144 in chapter 21 (v. 17).
In sum: there is nothing to back up the JW teaching which was made up by Rutherford to secure control on the increasing number of people related to the WT in the 30's. Making them "second-class believers," dependent on a "first-class" "represented" by the WT was the trick. Simple really.

I totally agree and will look into Peacefulpete's thread, too! That's too bad so many people have believed that they can only at best be some sort of second-class believer.

35

Can anyone help with info to refute only 144,000 going to heaven?

by The Leological One in

jw
friends

i've recently shown my wife this forum (she's a df'd jw who does still hold fast to jw views).

she's been really depressed and feels down on herself constantly because she wasn't a better witness and seems to feel she has no hope of a personal relationship with god now that she's df'd.

i was a little upset a moment ago trying to get her out of her depression by pushing my point of view that the wt is full of $hit regarding a great many number of things, the least of which that only 144,000 people are going to heaven/effectively can be saved.

The Leological One

Thanks again TheOneBuck! I'm not sure she's ready to start studying with me things that would refute her long-held beliefs, but she's already been aware that I've been researching some things for well over a year now, myself. I did get her to look at the forum for the first time a couple days ago, and she read the entire thread started by SwordOfJah!

by telling her the views that were depressing her were wrong to begin with
Who likes being told they are wrong.. Make yourself visable when you do research, so she might sit it. Actually do some research together and see what you think about the 144,000. Do not rely on others to tell if it is right or wrong decide for yourself. I think if you both go into it with an open mind you will be amazed at the outcome... not only hers but yours.

35

Can anyone help with info to refute only 144,000 going to heaven?

by The Leological One in

jw
friends

i've recently shown my wife this forum (she's a df'd jw who does still hold fast to jw views).

she's been really depressed and feels down on herself constantly because she wasn't a better witness and seems to feel she has no hope of a personal relationship with god now that she's df'd.

i was a little upset a moment ago trying to get her out of her depression by pushing my point of view that the wt is full of $hit regarding a great many number of things, the least of which that only 144,000 people are going to heaven/effectively can be saved.

The Leological One

Wow, willy_think~!

Thanks for the reply~! I'm still reading it but can hardly believe I've never thought about the previous 24 elders being there along with the witnesses! I'll keep reading. Thanks again~!

Beyond this, we see in Revelation 14 that the 144,000 stand before the 24 elders from Revelation 4:4. This at least brings the grand total to 144,024 people. But, the Scriptures indicate that there are still more to come.

35

Can anyone help with info to refute only 144,000 going to heaven?

by The Leological One in

jw
friends

i've recently shown my wife this forum (she's a df'd jw who does still hold fast to jw views).

she's been really depressed and feels down on herself constantly because she wasn't a better witness and seems to feel she has no hope of a personal relationship with god now that she's df'd.

i was a little upset a moment ago trying to get her out of her depression by pushing my point of view that the wt is full of $hit regarding a great many number of things, the least of which that only 144,000 people are going to heaven/effectively can be saved.

The Leological One

TheOneBuck,

Thanks for the thoughtful post, and I think that's good advice~!